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Mike is the general manager of Q90 FM and co-host of Stand Up For The Truth. His new book, "Are You Really Saved?" Understanding Sin, Grace, Salvation, and Sanctification, published in 2014.

The Great Christmas Debate!

christmas paintA growing number of Christians are not only saying NO to Christmas, but convincing many other believers that the holiday ought not to be celebrated by anyone but pagans.

Is it true? Are we sinning if we celebrate the birth of Christ this month?

There are many myths about Christmas, its origins and how and why Christians celebrated it over the centuries. So we decided that today we are going to unwrap Christmas by looking at the facts, the fallacies and comparing all of it to what God has to say in His Word.

So what do you think about Christians celebrating or observing Christmas? Do you abstain, or do you partake in certain traditions?


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We’re also going to bring into this conversation some relevant teaching on some of the movements out there like the Hebrew Roots, the Antinomianism and others that are particularly significant as they relate to our discussion on Christmas, and why Jesus spoke so often about avoiding these trappings and sticking to the narrow path.

 

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119 Responses to “The Great Christmas Debate!”

  1. I wrote a documentary on the History of Sacred Christmas Carols and the War on Christmas aired on NPR, Armed Forces Radio Network, and many Christian radio networks and stations around the world. So this is a great discussion.

    December 4, 2013 at 2:40 AM
  2. James #

    Destroying another celebration of where our Christian beliefs started from, The birth of Jesus Christ would be horrendous, and if pagans want to celebrate, then let them and just maybe they may start seeing it all began with the birth of Jesus. I will never stop celebrating this miraculous birth as long as I walk this earh.
    It seems that too many people have too much time on their hands, and come up with ways to do away with another focus on Jesus Christ. And for Christians to think this way is sad, or maybe they are too wrapped up in finding ways to keep tearing Jesus out of our society even more than He is. If it is a pagan thing, well so what, we live in a world where so many things, that we do daily originated from pagan's beliefs years ago.
    I love Jesus Christ, and if there is anything, in anyway that gives me the privilege to recognize him more and more, then Praise God. For example, when Christmas is coming closer, I start to focus on His birth in a way that it is different than the rest of the year. It can be a more special time to teach kids about our Lord and Savior, and come back to family unity. However, now a days, it has become too commercialized and society has been losing that focus on Jesus.
    This is another reason that if Christians want to take away this Holy Celebration, to those who want it this way, is another victory or effort by Satan to take more focus off Jesus.

    December 4, 2013 at 5:55 AM
  3. robert #

    Why would ANY Christian NOT want to celebrate the birth of Our Lord and Savior? Christmas, the Mass of Christs birth, was NEVER a pagan holiday. The date may have been usurped by the early Christians, but the holiday has NOTHING to do with Paganism. This move to NOT celebrate Christmas is in itself pagan and foolish, and un Christian.

    December 4, 2013 at 6:19 AM
  4. Ima Believer #

    We celebrate the first coming of Jesus Christ in my family.

    We look forward with hope to the second coming of Jesus Christ.

    P.S. The Santa Claus myth was not welcome in our home.

    December 4, 2013 at 6:37 AM
  5. Sharon Ann #

    One may focus on the gifts….

    One may focus on the giver…

    But if we "fix our eyes on Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith" [Hebrews 12: 1-3],
    We may behold both The Gift & The Giver.

    I see this as a year round calling. There are many (traps/ snares) to any holiday season, especially Christmas! Dig deeper!…Maybe the questions we need to be asking ourselves might go more like this…..

    [According to His Will & His Word]-
    *Is the person we are becoming day-by-day pleasing to God?
    *Are we doing and acting in ways that are pleasing to God?
    *Are we being good stewards with what He has entrusted to us, (time, talent & treasure)?

    December 4, 2013 at 7:59 AM
  6. Cindy #

    I encourage each person to search the word, pray and ask Jesus, what it is He prefers us to celebrate. What is truly of Him, and what have we added to His precious word. If we truly have a heart for the Lord, we will do that. If we want to serve our own selves, our own will, our own desires, we will refuse to ask Him His. It is that simple.

    Anything we hang on to, with a tightly closed fist and won't let go of, is an idol. I sincerely had to ask myself that question, when I was born again a few years ago. I ask it now about EVERYTHING, including Christmas. I asked: "Is this something the Lord wants, or something of tradition that man has said the Lord wants?"

    The importance of understanding Jesus' first coming is to enable us to understand His second coming. It is very important to understand the times of His first coming, to be able to recognize the signs of His second. If you wish to celebrate a holiday that man invented, and Jesus never spoke of that is your choice and no one should criticize you of that choice. But, in turn then, it would not be of the Lord for you to criticize those who love the Lord Jesus Christ and yet, do not celebrate it.

    If you decide to search the word and find out where His word speaks of celebrating birthdays, you will find two occasions: Pharaoh and Herod. Both are midrash representations of antichrist. Just stating a fact.

    Jesus observed the Festival of Dedication, {Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch. John 10:22-23}

    This was one of the occasions where He announced His deity…

    {I and My Father are one. John 10:30}

    Of course this chapter is also the "Good Shepherd" chapter in which He discusses wolves coming into the fold in order to destroy. When was "Christmas" established and by whom? Was it established by a wolf, or by the Lord?

    So this December, perhaps ask yourself some very honest questions: "Do I really want to know what gives Jesus joy?" and "Am I willing to humble myself and go to my Savior and ask Him to show me in Spirit and in Truth what He desires?" That….would be what is precious to Him, our seeking Him in all honesty and willingness to know, "The Way, the Truth and the Life."

    December 4, 2013 at 8:59 AM
  7. Cherie #

    I cannot believe how deep the deception goes! I am in shock! Why would you put in your post about the myths of the origins of Christmas? They are not myths but facts.

    Go to Following Judah's Lion to see what I posted about Wreaths. It is completely pagan. Why would Christians, who claim not to be of the Roman Catholic Church, not see that it is they the RCC that started this "day" as the birth of Christ! Jesus was Jewish, not Catholic! Christmas was started in the 4th century, you will not see it in the Book of Acts or mentioned as a celebration in the Epistles. Doesn't anyone read the Bible at all? Or do you prefer to add to the Word of God. See in the Scriptures what is not there. Lust for the eyes and the flesh, and if you don't think you will have to account for it think again. Jesus is not a baby in a manger, He is all grown up and at the right hand of the Father.

    I just don't understand it. Stand up for the Truth back in October had Caryl Marciano on their radio program regarding Halloween. Google her name and you will find her web site. On the site is a video regarding the origins of Christmas. See for yourself. Then read the entire NT and then tell God he is a liar.

    Just because we grew up in a particular tradition doesn't make it right. My parents taught us Christmas, it wasn't what was told in the bible. The birth of Christ is mentioned in two of the Gospels as a background on how God, in human flesh became man and that is all. No where does it say to celebrate His birth. All He told us was to remember His death until He comes again.

    Any Christian who celebrates Christmas is a coward and should be ashamed of not standing up for the truth of the Word of God. I once spoke to a pastor who didn't celebrate Christmas because he knew it was pagan, but decided to return to sin because of his mother. Sentimentality almost kept Jesus from the Cross. Oh, but you wouldn't know that unless you read the Word of God. Jesus rebuked Peter's sentimentality:

    Matthew 16:23
    But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

    Christmas, even if you choose to ignore the facts, is man made, not God made.

    Luke 22:19
    And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

    1 Corinthians 11:24
    And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

    But then why would a Christian want to do what the Master says? It is too inconvenient, it is too offensive to our friends, family, co-workers. Why, it is easier to compromise then to be berated for our faith. Um…like Jesus said we would be…..

    Mark 10:29
    And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

    Matthew 15:8
    This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

    Matthew 6:19
    Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

    Mark 8:18
    Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

    Mark 8:21
    And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

    Luke 6:46
    And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

    If the last verse doesn't affect your conscience, nothing will.

    Yes, bring on the flack. Did you think I don't expect it? Your celebrating in the same way as unbelievers do, that is the first clue. It is your future. All I know is that I would not want to hear the Lord tell me to depart from Him because He never knew me. If not celebrating Christmas, which is Roman Catholic, keeps me from hearing that, then I am not going to miss it at all. Think about it, very carefully. Spend eternity in hell for a day of lust for the eyes and flesh? No thanks, I will take eternity with the Lord.

    Deception brothers and sisters Jesus told us about, and Christmas is one of the big ones. Repent and be forgiven, please!

    your sister in Christ Jesus,
    Cherie c.

    December 4, 2013 at 10:39 AM
  8. Cherie #

    Make no mistake. We are NOT to observe times, days, season, etc. That includes Jewish observances like someone mentioned in this comment section. Jesus was raised to be Jewish, but His message changed all that.

    Galatians 4:7-11

    7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

    8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

    9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

    10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

    11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

    He came to fulfill the Festival of Lights, and other Jewish observances, so don't go the way of Sabbath Keepers, they have fallen from Gracel

    Galatians 5:3-5

    3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

    4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

    So you see, God covered all possibilities of mistakes by both Jew and Gentile believers.

    your sister in Christ Jesus,
    Cherie c.

    December 4, 2013 at 10:55 AM
  9. lyn #

    Amen Cherie. Someone point out, from God's word, where we are commanded to keep any ordinance to celebrate the birth of Christ? The origin is NOT the issue here, where is the biblical command to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ?
    As C.H. Spurgeon so rightly states, " When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide and other Popish festivals were ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men as to observe the ordinances of the Lord.”

    This is from A. W. Pink, " But, says someone, Christmas is the time when we commemorate the Saviour’s birth. It is? And who authorized such commemoration? Certainly God did not. The Redeemer bade His disciples “remember” Him in His death, but there is not a word in Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, which tells us to celebrate His birth. Moreover, who knows when, in what month, He was born? The Bible is silent thereon. And who is it that celebrates “Christmas?” The whole “civilized world.” Millions who make no profession of faith in the blood of the Lamb, who “despise and reject Him,” and millions more who while claiming to be His followers yet in works deny Him, join in merrymaking under the pretense of honoring the birth of the Lord Jesus. Putting it on its lowest ground, we would ask, Is it fitting that His friends should unite with His enemies in a worldly round of fleshly gratification? Does any truly born-again soul really think that He whom the world cast out is either pleased or glorified by such participation in the world’s joys? Verily, the customs of the people are vain; and it is written, “Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil” (Exo 3:2).
    Some will argue for the “keeping of Christmas” on the ground of “giving the kiddies a good time.” But why do this under cloak of honoring the Saviour’s birth? Why is it necessary to drag in His holy name in connection with what takes place at that season of carnal jollification? Is this taking the little ones with you out of Egypt (Exo 10:9,10) a type of the world, or is it not plainly a mingling with the present-day Egyptians in their “pleasures of sin for a season?” (Heb 11:25) Scripture says, “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Prov 22:6). Scripture does command God’s people to bring up their children “in the nurture and admonition of the Lord” (Eph 6:4), but where does it stipulate that it is our duty to give the little ones a “good time?” Do we ever give the children “a good time” when we engage in anything upon which we cannot fittingly ask the Lord’s blessing?" A. W. Pink

    December 4, 2013 at 1:13 PM
  10. Rose #

    Whatever our views on celebrating Christmas, it can be a great opportunity to reach out to unbelievers with the gospel message..handing out Christmas tracts that have a solid
    Biblical explanation of who Jesus is and why He came to earth. Or… sending unsaved family and friends gospel based Christmas cards…maybe including a tract inside. People are often more receptive and apt to read a tract at Christmas than other times of the year and it is something so easy to do.

    December 4, 2013 at 2:54 PM
  11. jules #

    Nowhere in the Bible does it command xmas observance. Xmas IS pagan in origin and the pagans rightly want to claim it back!

    Decking trees is an abomination to God and just because we want to do it does not make it acceptable to God.

    December 4, 2013 at 3:28 PM
  12. lyn #

    I understand Cherie, but you cannot assume Rose was giving an 'excuse'. It would appear she was making a suggestion; with that said, who can argue with her suggestion to speak of Christ? In any case, and whatever the motive {of which only God knows}, speaking the Gospel is always right for God's people, regardless of what day it is.

    December 4, 2013 at 5:19 PM
  13. Ima Believer #

    Exactly where in the scriptures does it forbid man from celebrating the first coming of Jesus, the Messiah?

    The angels celebrated and announced His coming. The shepherds went to see Him and shared what they witnessed with others. Simeon longed for his coming and then rejoiced upon seeing the child. Anna gave thanks as well. Luke 2.

    I'll be joyfully listening Handel's Messiah, reading Luke 2, and even watching a Charlie Brown Christmas over the next few weeks. I will be smiling and telling my co-workers, family and friends to have a Merry Christmas.

    So what do you do during this time of year? Scowl at your neighbors for giving presents and condemn your family members for singing Joy to the World? Go into hiding?

    December 5, 2013 at 4:00 PM
  14. lyn #

    You say "Lyn is the one who said I accused you." Actually, your words state such, when you said "Sorry Rose, that is a method to keep doing what we ought not to do. So we keep sinning in order to bring people to Christ? " This is your comment from December 5, 2013 at 9:45 pm.
    We must all read words carefully, and weigh our own words with equal care.

    Now, as for your personal attack on me when you said, " She also says she is not a Calvinist but follows known Calvinists who are very self righteous. But puts down a true man of God, Dave Hunt who believed that Jesus died for the whole world, not just a select few."
    I clearly stated I do not follow John Calvin, and that I adhere to the doctrines of grace. I also provided a few scriptures to support those doctrines, which you apparently ignored…so be it. I did not put Dave Hunt down, I spoke out against his teachings and did not say anything about him as a person.
    Please, refrain from making false accusations against others. We all must remember the command to love one another and to be humble. You accuse others of being self righteous, perhaps asking God to search your own heart would be far more beneficial to you than lashing out against those who disagree with you.

    December 5, 2013 at 4:34 PM
  15. Cherie #

    I fully expected someone to give me a hard time about my comment, but to twist what I say to make one seem superior by coming to the perceived defense of someone who you said was attacked is way beyond what I expected.

    Lyn, you are falsely accusing me of something I didn't do. We will all have to stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ. I suggest you do as you prescribed to me. I however have to forgive you, and I do. Peace.

    Below is a copy of my response to Rose. Um where is it that I accused her of sinning? Please read the post in context and in its entirety.

    Cherie #

    Sorry Rose, that is a method to keep doing what we ought not to do. So we keep sinning in order to bring people to Christ? Not a good idea. And since Christ is not in Christmas, anytime is a good time to share Jesus. Sharing the Gospel is our reasonable service. Participating in a pagan holy day is not. Hey, you can do as you see fit. I do what the Word of God sees fit. Once I put my own ideas in how I live for God, I get it wrong.

    "So we keep sinning" is what I said. WE, that would include me. Then I went on to say that it was not a good idea. Then I said it is a good time any time to share the Gospel. I did not say she was a sinner exclusively. I included myself because I compromise with this day too. Also Lyn,

    1 John 1:8
    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    Are you saying Rose no longer sins? We sin every day. Every saved person still sins. I am not ashamed to say I am a sinner because it is truth. If it offends, examine yourself.

    2 Corinthians 13:5
    Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    It is a sin to to disobey God. It is a sin to continue in a practice that is not of God. And, if you really read my comment regarding Rose's post you will notice I also said:

    "Hey, you can do as you see fit. I do what the Word of God sees fit. Once I put my own ideas in how I live for God, I get it wrong." If we think we are doing a good thing and we fail to check it against Scripture, we get it wrong.

    Rose sends Christmas cards with tracts????!!!! "sending unsaved family and friends gospel based Christmas cards"

    Christmas cards no matter how many Scripture verses the card has, still has a basis in Christmas. Send a gospel based card to an unsaved family member in June, or September, or January 21st. Or better yet, just send the Tract.

    They do not see any errors, they only see a mixed message because she is saying Christmas is bad on one hand then sending Christmas cards. Does no one see the error of this? Does no one see the mixed message in this? They will throw out the tract and hang the Christmas card on a piece of garland with the other cards they received. Do I say nothing and let her go on doing what she ought not? How is that loving the bretheran? If I error, I hope someone will correct me. Yes, it will be painful, painfully embarrassing, but if it keeps me on the narrow path, thank you and Praise God for the correction.

    Rose keeps traditions of men: " You honestly feel I am sinning when I use the tradition of sending out Christmas cards to share gospel tracts with people?" Yes Rose I do. Just like I sin when I give Christmas presents to my kids on a day that is not of God. It is a sin. We are in essence not loving the Lord our God with all our heart, all our soul, all our strength and all our mind. We are saying, oh God won't mind if I participate in a pagan holy day. Na, it is a chance to share the Gospel. The got the Gospel wrong in the first place. They need correction not affirmation of what they practice!

    Rose wasn't suggesting when she clearly said she " I use the tradition of sending our Christmas cards to share gospel tracts with people" as you wrote. You are wrong, she wasn't suggesting, she actually said she what she does.

    And what am I supposed to say, nothing? I don't want to see Rose do as we all sometimes do, which is trying to put light with darkness. Our good intentions will get us in trouble. How many times do I have to quote Jesus when He rebuked Peter because of his sentimentality? Do you not understand the gravity of trying to mix Jesus of the Bible with the jesus of Christmas? It is wrong plain and simple. Yes, the truth is it is a sin.

    2 Corinthians 6:14-15

    14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

    15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

    So if we, Christians, participate in any fashion with Christmas; share the Jesus of the Word of God with the jesus of the Roman Catholic Church we are in disobedience. The Roman Catholic Church along with the Emperor of Roman, Constantine, are the ones who started this day. A man made day that is far from Holy.

    Jesus spoke of great deception in the last days, and if we think that limited participation in the name of evangelism is okay. Well, how deceived we are.

    Don't argue with me, argue with the Word of God. But just like I will have to account for what I have done after salvation, so will all those who profess to know Christ. Hurt to be called a sinner? Can't understand why truth would hurt. Jesus said He came to save the sinner.

    Bottom line Rose, Lyn twisted what I said. You can too if you like. She is defending something that doesn't need defending. We all like to hear how great we are, but the truth is we are sinners saved by the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross and in His Resurrection alone. All are sinners fall short of the Glory, even Calvinist.

    Romans 3:23
    For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    Ephesians 2:8-10

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Rose,
    Lyn didn't like what I said about James White being a Calvinist, so she took it upon herself to make something out of nothing. If you read her first comment in response to what I wrote she agreed. Now her tune has changed. It wasn't until I objected to her mean words about Dave Hunt that she wrote further about my response to you. Also, you said that you send Christmas cards as it is a tradition. Um, do you not remember what Jesus said about traditions of men?

    Mark 7:9

    9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

    Colossians 2

    8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    I am not trying to make you feel bad, but if you do, good. Repent! The hardest thing for me was to realize I had to repent of celebrating Christmas. If you don't know you're doing something harmful to your walk, aren't you at least a bit glad someone is willing to point it out? Are you trying to do that very thing by sending tracts? Unsaved means in sin. I didn't know many things of which I was doing that was wrong until someone pointed it out to me. It is very hard, but I don't tell you this with a mean intention. I care about sisters in Christ not going down the wrong path. Too many are. My sister is a Sabbath Keeper! According to Paul she has fallen from grace. She gets mad at me when I plead with her to repent and not do what she does. Her daughter dresses up like a Hasidic Jewish girl. She is not supposed to do that. We are not to celebrate Jewish holy days. But she does. And she gets insulted when I ask her to stop. I do not condemn anyone, but I see the plank in my own eye. That is how I can see the splinter in yours. If I didn't care, do you think I would be up this late with a fever bothering to exhort you? But others say it is accusation. Not so. Not true.

    We as Christians have been set up from our very birth to not obey the Lord. People who are family, friends, etc use sentimentality to cause us to compromise our faith. That is what we are doing, compromising our faith. That would be akin to lukewarmness Jesus spoke about;

    Revelation 3:16

    16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    You can do as you like, say as you like, but I was only trying to correct the kind of thinking that gets us into trouble and we don't even recognize it. Or we choose not to admit it because we are giving into out flesh, our ego, thinking we are doing a service for the Lord, but in truth, we are not. We have all done that one time or another.

    And when we do sin we have an advocate with the Father

    1 John 2

    2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    Lyn, are you going to call out the Apostle Paul for calling us sinners? Because Paul wrote as God the Holy Spirit told him. So if anyone gets upset being told they are sinners, then take it up with God.

    All this and I never even said to Rose what you are trying to say I did.

    Oh BTW, you meaning universal, definition below just in case you misunderstand who I am speaking about. But in this post you is meaning you, Lyn.

    you
    yo͞o/
    pronoun
    pronoun: you

    1.
    used to refer to the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
    "are you listening?"
    used to refer to the person being addressed together with other people regarded in the same class.
    "you Australians"
    used in exclamations to address one or more people.
    "you fools"
    2.
    used to refer to any person in general.
    "after a while, you get used to it"

    PEACE

    your sister in Christ Jesus,
    Cherie c.

    Cherie c.

    December 5, 2013 at 5:53 PM
  16. Cherie #

    Ima Believer,

    Please see all Scripture I have posted. Also, if you want to celebrate Jesus' birth, then why wait to do it with the world? The unsaved? He was born between Rosha Shanna and Yom Kipper. Let me know if you want to have a dinner in His honor, I will gladly attend, even though Jesus said to remember His death. But we don't have to do as He tells us to do, do we? Um yes we should do as He says.

    Matthew 15:8
    This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

    Mark 7:6
    He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

    Just because something is absent, doesn't mean it is okay to do. The jesus of Christmas is not the Jesus of the Bible. If Jesus said not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Why do you?

    Matthew 7:21

    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    I don't want to be that person who doesn't enter into Heaven. I am going to obey God as best as I can, and repent when I should and ask for mercy so I can go and be with the Lord.

    Do you really want to take the chance that participating in this day will cause you to miss heaven? Especially when He told us to remember His death? He never said to remember His birth.

    You really want to risk it because of what He didn't say? The Apostle John said that Jesus did much more than what was written in the Bible. So much so that if it were written down in books, the books would fill the whole world. So assuming that because it doesn't say not to celebrate His birth is to mean that we can? And saying you're correct; why celebrate His birth with the worldly? Why not celebrate it close to where much research says it may be? Between September and October.

    Why would you dishonor the Lord, knowing that Christmas is a Roman Catholic invention, who clearly is anti-christ, mingle His birthday with that of the anti-christ church?

    So you honestly believe you are obeying the first commandment by participating in Christmas? You know, the greatest commandment Jesus said:

    Matthew 22:36-40

    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    38 This is the first and great commandment.

    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    Well Ima Believer, you will have to account for all you do or not do as will I. But I would rather err on the side of caution than to get it wrong and not go be with the Lord.

    Brothers and Sisters, Christmas embodies the temporal of this world, things, trees, false hopes, selfishness, gluttony, covertness, pride (who has the best light display on the block) etc. why would we ever put the temporal above the eternal? Just saying.

    Matthew 16:26

    26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    Truly sad indeed.

    your sister in Christ Jesus,
    Cherie c.

    December 5, 2013 at 6:29 PM
  17. Cherie #

    Never said it was a sin to share the Gospel. It is however when done in compromise. We either believe and live the Gospel or we don't. I noticed how you conveniently misused what I said. Your intention is full of malice and that is what makes me sad Lyn.

    I don't expect you to admit to it, so don't worry about it.

    You want to send mixed messages, then you will have to account for it. That is all I will say. The rest is up to you.

    I will not be commenting on this again. I have said all I can say, and put forth all the Scripture needed to drive home the point. Do what you will with it. But please do not accuse me of something or infer something that i did not do. Thank you.

    December 5, 2013 at 6:37 PM
  18. Rose #

    I have tired to post again to this topic several times now and it is not coming up. Sorry if I end up with repeats…

    December 6, 2013 at 12:28 PM
  19. lyn #

    Here lies the gist of why Cherie keeps pinning the blame on me for ALL that she's done, "Bottom line Rose, Lyn twisted what I said. You can too if you like. She is defending something that doesn’t need defending. We all like to hear how great we are, but the truth is we are sinners saved by the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross and in His Resurrection alone. All are sinners fall short of the Glory, even Calvinist."
    I disagree with her free will theology, so she attacks me on that basis. Oh well, we all have to take bumps and bruises in life, along with the false accusations, even when they come from those who profess Christ.

    December 6, 2013 at 1:24 PM
  20. Carol Von Canon #

    There's no sense arguing about Christmas, but I would hope you'd search these things out for yourself. Google is very helpful in finding articles about the pagan origins of Christmas, Easter, Halloween, and all the other holidays that we keep in this country and around the world. It seems to me, that since most Christians are so unwilling to even seek God about whether they should give up these pagan traditions, that idolatry is already at work in their hearts. A Christian should be more than willing to give up anything and everything that offends the Lord.

    Whenever these issues about the holidays we keep come up, I'm always reminded of Exodus 32. You might check that out. Moses was up on Mt. Sinai, where the Lord was writing His 10 Commandments on 2 tablets of stone, and the people were getting antzy that he wasn't coming back as soon as they thought he should. So they went to Aaron, the 2nd in command ((only to Moses) of the people of Israel; Aaron, the man whom God had chosen to be His High Priest, and lead the people into the true worship and knowledge of Himself. And the people demanded of him to make them gods to lead them, (since it didn't look like Moses was ever coming back), thus breaking God's 1st commandment.

    So Aaron had them bring him all their golden earrings, and with a graving tool, he fashioned a molten calf, and said to them, "These be thy god's O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt." So Aaron built an altar, and made a declaration that "tomorrow will be a feast (holiday or holy day) unto Yahweh (translated "the Lord" in our Bibles), thus breaking the 2nd and 3rd commandments. And the people of Israel got up early the next day and threw a big celebration; offering burnt offerings and peace offerings to this pagan Egyptian image they had carved out of gold, and saying it was because of the Lord–Yahweh. Yahweh was the reason for the season!

    Was the Lord (Yahweh) happy and pleased that the people had thrown Him this big party (albeit in their pagan Egyptian way)?

    I don't think so. The Lord told Moses to leave Him alone, because He was exceedingly angry (wrathful!), and wanted to "consume them", and start all over with a new nation from Moses' offspring.

    Moses reasoned with the Lord, and thanks to Moses arguing against it, He didn't consume them. But it was a pretty close call.

    Has the Lord changed His mind about His people celebrating pagan feasts in His name?

    Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    December 7, 2013 at 6:07 AM
  21. Carol Von Canon #

    P.S. I believe Cherie has spoken biblically, but many here have spoken from an idolatrous heart.

    2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    December 7, 2013 at 6:19 AM
  22. Marie #

    Thank-You Carol for defending a sister in Christ Jesus. I too, believe Cheri is correct in her Scriptural references as well and you provide additional sustenance.

    I would ask in all humility, where are the Scriptures for the proof of paying homage to the birthdate of Jesus?

    Also, where are the Scriptural refernces where the church under the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, honored Jesus with one particular date……and where are the references for all of festivities we have added….and in the name of a jesus no less?

    Where did God, our Heavenly Father, command us to remember Jesus once a year, when in fact, as born again Christians by the very Spirit of God, commands us to honor Christ every moment of every day, for without Him, we are condemned.

    We go to such great lengths to defend a doctrine not found in the Scriptures and believe we are persecuted when someone does not with us a "merry christmas" in a store, when a school decides to call a program "the holiday program", when colleges leave for "holiday break" instead of "christmas break", or when a city is asked to remove their "nativity scene" from the center square….side note….the magi did not come upon a little baby jesus lying in a major….they visited Jesus at His home a couple of years later.)

    So then, when Christians are being murdered for truly defending the faith that was once and for all delievered to the saints (that is us), does that not make all of the fuss about a doctrine that never existed in the Scriptures, look like a fool's folley?

    And would those precious martyrs be saddened by our behavior/character today?

    May Jesus Christ, our Risen LORD and Savior, forgive us for what we have become.

    December 7, 2013 at 9:30 AM
  23. Cherie #

    @Carol Von Canon,

    I know I said previously that I would not comment on this again, but you made me glad when I read your post. I'd forgotten about that event. How timely, how apropos to this topic. And Israel again would worship idols made with human hands; in Babylon. And even decorate trees.

    Jeremiah 10

    10 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

    2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

    3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

    4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

    5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

    6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

    7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.

    8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.

    9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

    10 But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

    11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

    12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

    13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

    14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

    15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.

    16 The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The Lord of hosts is his name.

    17 Gather up thy wares out of the land, O inhabitant of the fortress.

    18 For thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this once, and will distress them, that they may find it so.

    19 Woe is me for my hurt! my wound is grievous; but I said, Truly this is a grief, and I must bear it.

    20 My tabernacle is spoiled, and all my cords are broken: my children are gone forth of me, and they are not: there is none to stretch forth my tent any more, and to set up my curtains.

    21 For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the Lord: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.

    22 Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons.

    23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

    24 O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.

    25 Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate.

    People forget that Jesus is in God and God is in Jesus. Thanks for the reminder that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

    John 10:38

    But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

    Be careful Carol, some who post here will attack you then turn it to look like you are attacking them. I have no malice of forethought. But we must forgive. To God be the Glory. Amen to your comment Carol. Have a blessed day.

    your sister in Christ Jesus,
    Cherie c.

    December 7, 2013 at 2:49 PM
  24. Cherie #

    the Bible calls it idolatry.

    December 7, 2013 at 2:58 PM
  25. Cherie c. #

    God says it so much better than I ever could. One more reminder.

    Galatians 6:7
    Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

    Jeremiah 8:5-7

    5 Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.

    6 I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle.

    7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the Lord.

    Matthew 11:23
    And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

    Matthew 11:24
    But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

    The mighty works of God through His Son Jesus cheapened by idolatry. Repent before it is too late.

    2 Timothy 3:8
    Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

    May God have mercy on all of us.

    December 7, 2013 at 3:16 PM
  26. Carol Von Canon #

    Ima Believer,

    No one has said you shouldn't recognize the fact that God sent His Son, as a Babe, to this earth to be born as all men are born. That was a glorious miracle, and we should always remember the earthly beginning of that precious Gift that God in His great love for us gave to us.

    But to celebrate a pagan feast, by baptizing it with Christian terminology, is not honoring God for His Gift. That little Baby in Bethlehem had no power to save anyone, especially not Himself. That's why He needed Mary and Joseph to protect Him.

    But, about 33 years later, when He had grown into a Man, He obediently did His Father's will by dying on a cross for your sins and mine. There is much to be thankful for in His great sacrifice for us! God could not be reconciled to us while we were yet in our sins. He had no choice but to pour out His wrath upon us. The Law of the Holy and Just God demanded our death. But in His great love for us poor sinners, God Himself poured out His wrath on His only begotten Son; the Son of His love, and the Lamb was sacrificed in our place.

    How do you reconcile the false god, Santa, decorated trees, giving presents to everyone, drinking eggnog, while standing before a yule log, and kissing someone under some mistletoe with the fact that God sent His only begotten Son, the Son whom He loved, into this world as a baby, so that He would die for your sins–and you His enemy??

    December 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM
  27. Carol Von Canon #

    Rose,

    I'm not your judge, but the Word of God is. Prayer and study will answer all of your questions.

    But please do not think that God blesses anything we do because we do it in sincerity, thinking that our heart motives are good.

    Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    We do not even know what's in our own hearts, Rose, so we cannot trust our hearts to lead us. The Word of God must be or lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path, or we'll end up in a ditch.

    December 7, 2013 at 4:42 PM
  28. I have heard all of the debates and while I love my Lord Jesus and my brothers & sisters in Him I humbly disagree about the celebration of Christmas as a "Christian" holiday. Other things that disturb me is that we openly condemn the use of a crucifix (with a dead Jesus hanging on it) we have nativity scenes depicting a baby Jesus. Both are equally wrong to have. The fights constantly going on to keep the Christ in Christmas or to have nativity scenes – are the wrong fights! If we celebrate we should only glory in the Cross of Christ and the unmerited grace with mercy beyond belief. I will celebrate that He saved this miserable wretch and exhort all I can to do the same.
    More thoughts, I encourage all to remove the materialism if only in their minds for a minute. Many of the world see Christmas as a time of feasting, gifts and making money not as a celebration of the birth of a Savior for all. Yes, I am all for family getting together but if that family is putting Christ first I seriously question having that nativity scene as a focal point of worship of the new born King! The tree who can seriously separate it from Santa? I know how I grew up and they are inseparable if you are being honest.
    From one of my sites: How about the most holy (to most) carol of Christmas: Silent Night Holy Night text was from "Father" Joseph Mohr, 1818 (Roman Catholic priest); and tune: Franz Grüber, 1818 (Roman Catholic) Was it a "silent" night (angel proclamation, angels singing, birth of baby, shepherds visiting, shepherds reporting, etc.)? Where in the Bible does one get "all is bright"? Where does it say that the angels sang "Alleluia"? Where does it say that light radiated from the Baby's face? There is no record that the star's light was a part of the scene. The Scripture does not call that evening "silent" or "holy." A few phrases meaningful to the true Bible believer deceive many who think they are pleasing God while they sing a hymn depicting Roman Catholic tradition.

    Because of my childhood memories at times I wish I did not know these things and much more. Christmas may be a Roman Catholic holiday but it sure is no Biblically sanctioned holiday. Christmas is rife with Catholicism and Pagan things as for me and my house we will stick with what is sure and avoid as much as we can of these Pagan things while enjoying the fellowship of friends and family – yes it can be a difficult thing to do but when asked I will say this as a witness:

    Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

    December 8, 2013 at 2:33 AM
  29. Cherie c. #

    Marie, John,

    Praise be to God that more and more brothers and sisters in the Lord are recognizing what this day truly is.

    Against much heresy and pressure to be like others, it is blessing to see those who truly stand for the Faith even at the risk of rejection.

    May Jesus of the Holy Word of God be with you Marie, and you John, Jules and Carol, and with you Lyn, and Rose this day.

    I will lift you up in prayer Rose and Lyn to be convicted and repent of this day. Jesus deserves so much more than associating Him with a pagan holiday not mentioned in the Word.

    May His love and His Word always guide us in His truth. Fellowship with true followers of Jesus Christ is a rare find these day, and it is such a gift to be able to say hello to you Marie, John, Carol and Jules.

    your sister in Christ Jesus,
    Cherie c.

    December 8, 2013 at 11:45 AM
  30. Matthew #

    I cannot understand why everyone gives power to the powerless. Discussions on wreaths and trees and calling both pagan and abominations and the like. Do you realize that by simply debating that these items are unholy, you are giving them power that they do not have? YOU are the ones making idols of them!

    When was the last time you saw people standing around the tree praying, or worshiping? Have you ever witnessed worship at a nativity? Or perhaps actual pagan worship during this holiday time? I sure haven't.

    How many times has decorating the tree been something that gets families together? How many times has spending the holiday together as a family mended broken relationships? How many people accept Christ at a Christmas mass or service because they did not really know the reason for the celebration? How many times has Christmas brought people to serve in their communities that do not serve throughout the year?

    Outside of the materialism that has unfortunately attached itself to the season, is there more good than harm that comes out of it?

    As a Christian, I love that this gives me the opportunity to share the good news of Christ. When I am asked about what I am excited about this holiday, I can respond by saying " I am getting together with my family and friends to celebrate the birth of our Savior, how about you?" (Most will not follow this response with wishing for an expensive gift, or taking a long vacation!) This is also a great time to invite someone to your church. You would be surprised to know how many people simply do not know the actual story of Christ's birth!

    You can choose to be the kind of Christian that wants to shield yourself and your families from the 'evil' world, condemning sinners and arguing with people abut your interpretation of whatever the hot debate topic of the day is. Living in the church bubble you have created for yourself.

    Or, you can choose to be out in the world, sharing the good news of Christ, loving those who do not know Him and show how the Gospel changes lives like we are called to do. I choose every day to go out and be a living disciple of Christ. Like Paul, I will be a man of the world to gain favor from those that do not yet know His power. Go where many Christians will not and allow Christ to use my past sin to lead others to Him so that they too can be saved.

    If the people who spend so much time hating and condemning turned their efforts to being an outward expression of Christ, the world would be a different place today. One that more resembles what many of you actually say you want.

    December 8, 2013 at 1:35 PM
  31. Rose #

    I so appreciate your wise admonition, encouragment, and kindness to me, Lyn. You are a blessing!

    December 8, 2013 at 3:38 PM
  32. Ima Believer #

    A few weeks back I bought my wife a present and took her out for a nice meal at local restaurant. I am thankful to be married to her and I wanted to celebrate the anniversary of the day we married. Does this also make me a pagan?

    Then, about a week after our anniversary my wife and my children went to my parents' house. We read scriptures together, offered individual thanks to God and prayed. Then we enjoyed a delightful meal together of turkey, various vegetables, breads and some delicious pie. Abraham Lincoln asked Americans (along with other American leaders throughout our history) to set aside a day for thanksgiving many years ago. Is this also a pagan ritual that Christians should avoid?

    As for Christmas…
    I don't worship Santa or a tree. I'm not sure what a yule log is. I do like eggnog, cookies and those little oranges we get this time of year. I enjoy the company of family and friends, campfires, and even snow tubing (if the weather permits). I think it is uplifting to sing songs together and to play games. And I like sharing presents with my children.

    And I can't see how any of this violates the two commandments Jesus gave us. Love God. Love each other.

    December 9, 2013 at 6:11 AM
  33. Carol Von Canon #

    Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you?…

    December 9, 2013 at 7:22 AM
  34. Matthew #

    A somewhat related side note….Carol has an end times view of the world and is constantly taking the side that all is evil in the world, we are all turning against Gad and the sky is falling. I have had several 'sported' discussions with her on this website, and it is all a bunch of the above. Cherry picking the Bible for verses that, when taken out of the original context, suit her argument and as you so eloquently put it, 'whacking us over the head with it'.

    December 9, 2013 at 12:14 PM
  35. Carol Von Canon #

    Rose and Lyn,

    I didn't realize that Gill's word was infallible. I learn something new every day.

    December 9, 2013 at 1:21 PM
  36. lyn #

    Carol Von Canon,

    If you would have taken the time to actually read my comment, you would have seen this…

    "I would like to share commentary on this text from theologian John Gill {although not all may agree entirely with Gill}…

    You seem to excel at adding words to other people's comments, as well as your own view of what someone else's words mean.
    It is a shame you completely overlooked your mistake of pulling the verse out of context. It really is time to move on, I have no desire to waste time with people who just want to argue.

    December 9, 2013 at 5:53 PM
  37. Carol Von Canon #

    lyn,

    I am definitely not arguing with you or anyone else here. You accused me (and another here) of being legalistic, and bringing ridiculous, blown out of proportion charges against some here.

    Then you lumped me with the Pharisees, and those who have a lack of love, threaten, finger point, and name call, as well as a closed mind, and with those who twist the Word of God in order to bind others. You then continued top lump me with those who use hateful speech and false accusations and condemn people to hell.

    Then you quote Gill's interpretation of Matt. 17:17, as proof that I quoted a this verse completely out of context. Well, yes, I did. I admit that. But I do believe it fit the situation that's going on here. And yes, I did leave the last part of the verse out, because it didn't fit the situation. Whether the Lord was speaking to His disciples or the crowd or the father of the boy is not made plain in the text, so anything I or Gill or any other commentator is merely speculating on whom the Lord was actually speaking to. Perhaps I could have made my point clearer if I had quoted Matt. 16:23, since Jesus was definitely speaking to a disciple in that verse.

    May I ask why you complained to Rose about my use of Matt. 17"17, and did not discuss it with me as would have been proper?

    All I've done, Rose, is try to show you why a Christian should not be celebrating pagan holidays. Why are you fighting so hard to keep Christmas? I'm not the one who's saying you shouldn't keep it. The Word of God is saying it. Your problem isn't with me, so please stop coming against me. I'm not your enemy!

    December 9, 2013 at 6:52 PM
  38. Carol Von Canon #

    Excuse me, in my last paragraph, I meant to say "All I've done, lyn…"

    December 9, 2013 at 6:53 PM
  39. Cherie c. #

    To Carol Von Canon,

    If Stand Up For The Truth allows this comment. They have deleted some of my posts, but the posts that attack people I can see are still here.

    Dear sister in Christ. Time to walk away. When no one heeds Scripture, the very Word of God, it is time to walk away.

    Proverbs 9:8
    Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

    And as you have seen:

    Matthew 24:12
    And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    2 Timothy 4:3
    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

    I pray your efforts be counted worthy by the Lord, but it is time to abandon the fight. People would rather hold onto worldly things then hold on to the things of God, quoting men instead of God. Let God take it from here. They are void of wisdom. You have done all you can here. Time for you to hold your peace.

    Proverbs 11:12
    He that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbour: but a man of understanding holdeth his peace.

    your sister in Christ Jesus
    Cherie c.

    December 10, 2013 at 1:59 AM
  40. Ima Believer #

    This has been an interesting thread. I never realized how polarizing the issue of holidays might be for some. Please forgive me if I offended any of you. I hold no offense against any of you.

    God bless.

    December 10, 2013 at 3:40 AM
  41. Carol Von Canon #

    Ima

    I hope I haven't offended you. I should have spent more time answering your posts so we could have discussed the things you brought up, but I allowed myself to get caught up in all the negative things that were being said by others. I'm truly sorry.

    December 10, 2013 at 5:12 AM
  42. Sharon Ann #

    If I needed to drive a nail into wood, what tool would be a better choice? A hammer or a wrench?
    I could use either. Both are tools that can be used to do good or evil… but one is practically useless to get the job done and needs to be set aside.

    Maybe the question we need to be asking our Father God is whether or not the things we choose to do or cling to during these "holiday seasons" are *truly beneficial* for His Kingdom or are *useless* and need to be set aside???

    December 13, 2013 at 5:39 AM
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    December 16, 2013 at 3:18 AM
  44. Anna #

    It's glaringly obvious who the "pharisees" are and who the lovers of Truth are in this thread. As far as the Ancient Pagan Winter Solstice (birthday of King Nimrod, the first antichrist) relabled "Christ Mass" by Cahtolics (which is blasphemous, "Merry Christmass means literally "Celebrate Christ's MASSacre and is pure satanic mockery in disguise) one point alone should drive the Truth (the real Jesus/John 14:6) home to any who still want to find a reason to partcipate in heathen idolatry. That is this: What is one of the most, if not THE most, highly esteemed holidays of men in the entire world? All would have to agree: Christmass.

    "What is highly esteemed among men is an ABOMINATION to God." Luke 16:15

    Nuff said.

    December 19, 2013 at 7:01 AM
  45. SPW #

    God in His word says to not go the ways of the heathen and how they worship their false gods. Jeremiah 10 says, The heathen cuts a tree from a forest with an axe, they fasten it down with nails and a hammer so it won't fall over, they decorate with silver and gold and they worship the thing that cannot move or walk. God says why is this? The thing that is worshipped cannot do any good and it can't even speak. God says not to even entertain the thought of such idol worship. He does not want the same worship that false gods receive, and He will not share His glory with another. God according to His word will reject any worship that was started under pagan influence. People today don't read and study the bible, they follow the traditions of men and follow after what the world does. God is very detailed in His word with how He wants to be worshipped, and Christmas was birthed for a pagan sun god,this is not what He wanted. God wants to be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth, and there is no truth in Gods word that His Spirit ordained Christmas to be Christ birthday. In fact if we go back to the Hebrew calendar we can see that John was born around Passover of that same year and Jesus was born 6 month's after John, which would put His birth in September, either late summer or early fall. December 25th was for a pagan sun god and this started long before Jesus was ever born as a man. God says His people parish from lack of knowledge and they believe every wind of doctrine given by men.

    December 19, 2013 at 2:53 PM
  46. SPW #

    Cindy,
    I ditto your comment and I am of the same desire. All I want is to please Jesus.
    I started to see so much falsehood in all if not most man made traditions. I began to pray and seek truth and after about a year or so, little by little the veil was being removed. To this day, I feel like the wind has been knocked out of me that people worship so many idols and they don't even know it. The Lord is still separating me from myself and what my flesh wanted in the past. As you said nowhere in scripture is this day even mentioned. But there is a lot of how people celebrate Christmas with the trees and trimmings that God is very against and will not accept such worship.

    December 19, 2013 at 3:12 PM
  47. Marie #

    Thank-You Anna. Well spoken and actually factual.

    I believe Protestantism is a daughter of the Catholic Religion as it did not completely divorce itself from the false beliefs of a mother church system.

    And when a follower of Jesus Christ denies the tradition of christmas, be not surprised at where the greatest antagonism originates…..it will come from the harlot church system, not the Church whose Cornerstone and Head is Jesus Christ Himself.

    December 19, 2013 at 11:24 PM
  48. Jean #

    Christians should not observe Christmas. The end.

    December 23, 2013 at 8:03 PM
  49. Tracey Scott #

    If you look back in history, you will see that pagans celebrated way before jesus or christ was even thought of. It was a Roman emperor who decided that pagans needed to be more christianized so he demanded that the pagan holiday be changed to Christmas. This happened I believe in 4 AD or so. Plus….if you as a christian worship jesus….shouldnt jesus be a christian and NOT a jew? Plus that "christmas tree" you decorate is actually a pagan tree which was to celebrate the pagan holiday. I grew up christian….I accept that but I also got tired of find proof that the christian beliefs are all set on traditions that were stolen from other religions. Ignorance is bliss….continuing to be blind is worse. If it was said to come as you are whether you are rich or poor than why would a religion demand riches of all kinds be present when you go? The truth may hurt when christianity is deeply embedded in your heart and brain but honestly there is no need to degrade a religion or deny a religion which was around even before your precious jesus christ. We all have our own belief systems. Paganism was here with the first people and im not talking about the blackmailing columbus and other voyagers which came over. Im talking the Indians. They were Pagan yet they were forced to accept christianity. Isnt that nice….not only did christians remove the first people to be here on these soils but they also forced their beliefs. Thats something to be proud of!! Point of this whole thought is…I dont deny you the right of all your spirits with your beliefs so stop being ignorant thinking your belief system is the only important one. All religions were built on each other and christianity was NOT the first around. The higher the pedistal the harder the fall take your pedistal down a little and realize christianity isnt everyone's belief.

    December 24, 2013 at 2:14 AM
  50. Carol Von Canon #

    Here it is, Christ Mass Eve, and all the world gathers together to celebrate the birth of the Sun, calling the abomination by Christ's name in order to destroy the sheep of His pasture.

    Remember little flock, the Lord has warned us that many would come in His name. If you follow them, you'll end up in the lake of fire with them. COME YE OUT!!! AND BE YE SEPARATE!!!

    Do not sell your eternal inheritance for the meager bowl of pottage called Christ Mass!

    Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

    Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    For without are the dogs, the vile, the wicked, the depraved.

    For without are the socerers, who by their magical arts would have you fornicate with the evil spirit called "The spirit of Christ Mass".

    For without are murderers, the descendants of those who crucified our Lord Jesus, and would murder us also that we might be cast into the lake of fire with them.

    For without are idolaters who worship the gods under every green tree.

    For without are those who loveth and maketh a lie! They have made this lie called Christ Mass, and they love it, and refuse to let go of it.

    BLESSED ARE THEY WHO DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, and walk not in the way of the heathen, that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    December 24, 2013 at 4:43 AM
  51. jerm #

    Even if the bible doesn't celebrate it or even it the early church or the apostles didn't recognize it.Man that is sad you would rather hole to your happiness then Glory God…That is a lot different than what the bible teach. It hole to God alone.and not to fall into the tradition of men.Due 12 :32 don't add nor take away from my commands. You should may look into the word of God rather than man

    December 24, 2013 at 2:17 PM
  52. lyn #

    jerm,

    You directed this comment at me –
    LyN
    CalVinist so deep ..If you mean by holding to the word of God I guess you can label someone with name calling.What you miss in Calvin writing is the covent of Grace the Christ have come for.faith you have been saved though grace"

    Let me make this clear…again. I have never read Calvin, nor have I studied him. The doctrines of grace I hold to are taught in God's word. I have repeatedly quoted Ephesians 2:8-9, albeit not on this thread. I agree that grace is why sinners are saved, that faith is given as a gift by God to all He elects to save, and that if God did not draw sinners to Himself none would come. What are my proof texts? 2 Thess. 2:13 – But we are bound to give thanks to God alway for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, Eph. 1:4,5 – even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." John 17:2 – "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."
    and John 6:44- "No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him:"
    Now, what does John Calvin have to do with God drawing, God choosing, God gifting with faith and life eternal?
    What does John Calvin have to do with the topic of this thread?

    I see no reason to continue engaging others on this thread if you only argue from a pre-suppositional position.

    December 24, 2013 at 5:39 PM
  53. Jules #

    The whole Xmas debate is centred around choices. Either the love of the traditions of man, the origins of which were pagan, or the willingness to follow a God who does not lie.

    Our God, The Most High God is the God of a Truth. His Character is Truth, His Word is Truth.

    When a Christian and a pagan meet in conversation and the pagan demands the Christian tell the truth about the origins of Xmas, the fact that it is actually the birthday of his god, what on earth can the Christian say in reply?

    Everything in the dark will come out in the light and satan still has that card to play. He will say, see, Christians don't tell the truth, all their 'stories' are based on other 'religion' etc etc.

    Christians who have come to a knowledge of the Truth, but still perpetuate the lie of Xmas are unwittingly playing into satans hands. The enemy is an accuser of the saints and he is starting to make progress in his accusing as we, the body of Christ, have let tradition not Truth lead us on this matter.

    We KNOW Christ was not born in December, but probably around September time. Do Xmas celebrating Christians tell this Truth when they speak to people about Chist entering the world.

    Do Xmas celebrating Christians emphasise the reason Christ was born. That His WHOLE purpose for coming into the world, was to die for your sins, so you need to repent and turn from your sinful ways?

    What use is a babe born in Bethlehem to the sinner who won't accept he is in need of a Saviour and turn from his or her evil ways.

    Satan is very clever. He has all this sentimentality around a little baby and this is where he wants our focus.

    But our God, the Great God, is a triumphant King, and judge of all the earth who they will one day stand before to give account of their sinful lives and dismisivness of His Gift of life eternal. And we who are supposed to be salt….. Will have to give account of why we in the last days helped to keep sinners in darkness about the Truth, instead of telling the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth.

    If we were lovers of the Truth, we would be telling the people that The Most High is a Holy God and is against all things heathen, pagan – everything. From reading the Bible I se that He is a Pure, Holy and is a Jealous a God. He is Merciful and Patient, and in His Mercy, Winks at our ignorance, but when He reveals things to us, we are expected to share the Truth.

    Remember He even rejected tithes and offerings, something which He instigated, because the people had perverted its use. How much more does He see our celebrations at xmastime as an affront to His Sacredness?

    He has not changed and we will not change Him.

    As Paul would say, we need preach nothing else but Christ crucified and risen, for Therein is the Good News. Paraphrased!

    Jules

    December 27, 2013 at 9:20 AM
  54. Jules #

    Hi James, I see this differently. The focus on Christ's birth in this way is misleading. It keeps the non Christian in a sentimentality frame of mind rather than a self examining mode. The Christian only, can appreciate the Birth of Christ as through His birth, he now HAS eternal life. The sinner has no real appreciation of the birth since he doesn't see a link to his life and the birth of the Saviour. It's more sentiment than appreciation. It's a baby and everyone mellows when a baby is mentioned. R

    Brought up catholic, in a large family, Xmas was a magical time of merriment, family, food and baby Jesus in a manger with lots of carols. I loved Christmas!

    I became disillusioned with the commercialism as an adult, wanting to reclaim Christmas for Christ, when someone mentioned its origins are pagan.

    I did my research and searched the Scriptures to see if my research was true and it was. Nowhere in the Bible, apart from the celebrations at the time of His birth, is there a record of ANYONE, celebrating Christ's birth! There is a record of the Passover, and the last supper being remembered gbut the Word is silent on celebrating the birth. Why? Could it be Father and Christ Himself did not Want it to be celebrated?

    Having learned this, How could I continue to A, join in with the abomination and B, continue to lie about the abominations origins?

    Even if the birth was celebrated in September, it would be a TRADITION, not a command.

    Tradition is not necessarily in line with God Will. To see if it is, one much search Scripture to see if any guidance is given. What is the attitude of God to these things? Does Xmas fit with His Character?

    When reading Jeremiah, the similarities between this heathen abomination and Xmas are just too many to ignore. Even if someone is unclear whether it is the same thing, surely it's better to err on the side of caution in an effort not offend God? It's better for us to enter the Kingdom without Xmas then to remain on the outside with the paganists.

    Maybe when we start to tell the Truth about Xmas, we will start to preach the Gospel on a daily basis and tell people what they need to do to be saved.

    Because remember, If the salt loses its savour…..

    Yah is Holy, Yahoshua be Praised.

    Jules

    December 27, 2013 at 10:12 AM
  55. SPW #

    Cindy,
    This is where I was 2 years ago, slowly but surely I'm breaking away from traditions of men based on heathen ways and paganism. Yes, our Lord told us His desired worship is based on Spirit and Truth. There is absolutely no Truth in Christmas and Christ together. Jesus is Truth, all on His own, He will not blend with false god days. He will not share His glory with another and He does not change yesterday, today or forever. How can any believer in Christ worship Jesus based on paganism. What is the purpose of the evergreen tree? Jeremiah 10 is against such things and other false gods made from the tree from the forest. Even though its pagan, people thinks God id OK with it since we are focusing on Christ. For this day to be the biggest day of the entire year for the world and Christians alike, you would think God would have mentioned it somewhere. This day is worldly at beast and we are not to mix with the world and the lust of the eye's. People have made the evergreen tree to be an idol by how much they adorn them. Every one that asks why I don't put a tree in my house and why I don't celebrate December 25th like the world or they do, I give them my answer based on the bible or lack there of and I'm immediately look down on. This has ben very hard for me, but I will stand on Truth.

    December 27, 2013 at 10:16 AM
  56. SPW #

    Yes James, your comment is clear and simple and truth. We are to remember Christ death, burial and resurrection. This is truth because its in the scriptures but celebrating Christ birth is not. Anything we add to Gods word or take away from it He will take our name out of the Book of Life and our part of His kingdom. Revelation 22v18-19.

    December 27, 2013 at 10:32 AM
  57. SPW #

    Jules,
    You are not alone. There are still some of us that choose Truth, no matter the cost. I can sympathize because all my family and friends think I'm going overboard with what I have studied and what the Lord has showed me.

    December 27, 2013 at 10:37 AM
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